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Safer Crashing?

Last post 01-23-2012, 12:19 AM by andysmith. 26 replies.
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  •  10-03-2006, 5:38 PM 155 in reply to 52

    Re: Safer Crashing?

    Duck, your original post brings to mind airbags on motorcycles.

    I recently spoke with a woman who told me she wrecked her car because her airbag spontaneously went off while driving down the road with a Police officer behind her who witnessed the incident and stopped to assist.

    I remember an old AMA magazine issue with "leg protector outriggers" on a motorcycle and I laughed out loud and dissmissed it. I sincerely hope that's not the future of motorcycling in the USA!

    While I support Motorcycle Safety, I support Motorcycle Awareness more!!! (which includes educating the motorists and motorcyclists alike)

    http://www.macorg.com/


    Doug Coles
    CycleSpace.com
  •  10-03-2006, 6:13 PM 156 in reply to 52

    Re: Safer Crashing?

    Safer crashing? 
         Seems since there are soo many factors that can contribute to a crash and we all see the increasing fatality stats with all the attendant arguments as to causes, auto drivers, increasing sales of motorcycles, faster, heaver bikes, reduced helmet usage as mandate laws are done away with.......

        1st riders should use COMMON SENSE and be responsible enough to understand who is actually responsible for what happens to that individual should they choose to operate a motorcycle. Stop blaming others for crashes.
        2nd riders should adjust their attitudes, learn about "risk management stratagies". Wear proper riding gear, face it we have brains, lets use them. Learn and practice proper riding skills, a motorcycle is easily 2-3 times more task oriented than operating a car on the street. 
        3rd Promote driver awareness programs. There are so many distractions to driving now that drivers feel they have a god given right to do that driving the steel clad behemoth is almost a secondary task. Bigger is better? That closed environment is sooo convienient for phone chatting, eating, watching movies etc. Make them responsible for their actions. You can kills someoe and get little more than a slap on the hand. "Officer I didn't see um". Problem here is this will be a long term process as all licensed drivers will need an attitude adjustment and how can anyone make folks want to be responsible?
  •  10-03-2006, 6:57 PM 160 in reply to 156

    STOP blaming others for crashes?!?

    "Stop blaming others for crashes."

    You would've scored a 100 if you left this out of your first point, Bro.  It totally conflicts with your third.

    The main reason cagers think they can do whatever to whoever on two wheels is because our society does NOT blame cagers for the motorcycle crashes they cause.  As long as they are not impaired by alcohol when they do it, a cager can commit a right-of-way violation (ROWV) and maim or kill a rider in almost any state, and walk away with nothing more than a fine that is less than the cost of scraping our guts off their grill.  And IF a report makes the newspaper, there will seldom be mention of the cager's ROWV ... but there will always be a comment about the rider wearing no helmet ... as if the lack of a helmet forced the care-less cager to commit the ROWV that caused the crash ... thereby leaving the cager blameless.

    STOP blaming others for crashes?!?  How about we START blaming others for crashes OTHERS cause!

     

     


    Bruce Arnold

    LdrLongDistanceRider.com
    Co-Moderator, Bruce-n-Ray's Biker Forum
    Premier Member, Iron Butt Association
    Sustaining Member, Motorcycle Riders Foundation
    Member and Elite Legislative Supporter, American Motorcyclist Association

  •  10-04-2006, 12:19 PM 180 in reply to 160

    Re: STOP blaming others for crashes?!?

    My intent is to have riders understand that we have to look out for ourselves and try to stay out of those situation in the first place or understand that there is always a place for preventive strategies including awareness of possible hazards, proper evasive manoevering practice and for the drivers, MC awareness programs. Maybe it will save someone a little pain and suffering. Self preservation.

    Sure the penalties should be enforced (or stiffened) for ROWV but that is after the damage is done. Won't do that rider much good if he/she is 6 ft under or in an ICU.

    Motorcyclists are in the minority in the traffic mix, there are a lot of distracted motorists who are not and will not THINK about the hazards they pose to riders of motorcycles, bicycles and other road users. Heck just look at the people running red lights everywhere every day!

  •  10-04-2006, 12:27 PM 181 in reply to 180

    Re: STOP blaming others for crashes?!?

    Next time someone blows a blind stop sign and kills a biker, you can go preach how much experience and skill would have helped the rider. Until then, I'm backing up Bruce on this issue. It's time SOMEONE makes cagers responsible for their actions. Me dying in a wreck some distracted driver caused is not a risk I should have to take. All this "risk association" is bull.

    It boils down to people being responsible for their own actions. 

     


    Doing my part to save a Bikers life!
    www.SaveABiker.com
  •  10-04-2006, 1:46 PM 182 in reply to 180

    Cagers too can be conditioned...

    You say:

     

    My intent is to have riders understand that we have to look out for ourselves and try to stay out of those situations in the first place.

     

    Bruce says:

     

    “Those situations” tend to be staying in our own lane, minding our own business, when some care-less inattentive cager comes along to take us out.  To “stay out of those situations” … we would have to stay off the roads!

     

    You say:

     

    Understand that there is always a place for preventive strategies including awareness of possible hazards, proper evasive maneuvering practice and for the drivers, MC awareness programs. Maybe it will save someone a little pain and suffering.

     

    Bruce says:

     

    Preventive strategies?  Absolutely!  Ride like you are invisible ... and if they violate your right-of-way ... fight like you are invincible!

     

    You say:

     

    Self preservation.

     

    Bruce says:

     

    That’s what it’s all about, Bro.  And the best defense is a good OFFENSE!

     

    You say:

     

    Sure the penalties should be enforced (or stiffened) for ROWV but that is after the damage is done. Won't do that rider much good if he/she is 6 ft under or in an ICU.

     

    Bruce says:

     

    You miss the point, Bro.  In civilized society, the highest objective of legal penalties is to deter, not to punish.  The goal is to make the penalty stiff enough to discourage the crime.  If it doesn’t deter, the penalty doesn’t mean much.

     

    You say:

     

    Motorcyclists are in the minority in the traffic mix…

     

    Bruce says:

     

    Our founding fathers were in the minority when they demanded no taxation without representation.  Ghandi and his followers were in the minority when they challenged the world’s greatest empire for the independence of India.  And where would black Americans be today had they not challenged the white majority for equality?

     

    You say:

     

    There are a lot of distracted motorists who are not and will not THINK about the hazards they pose to riders of motorcycles, bicycles and other road users. Heck just look at the people running red lights everywhere every day!

     

    Bruce says:

     

    Not all motorcyclists are--or will ever be--bikers.  That is as it should be ... but must you be so DEFEATIST?  I am NOT interested in hearing about what cagers will NOT do!  Even the simplest of God’s animal life forms learn to avoid extreme heat, sharp edges, and repeating actions that cause injury to themselves or the mortality of their species.

     

    Cagers too can be conditioned...  


    Bruce Arnold

    LdrLongDistanceRider.com
    Co-Moderator, Bruce-n-Ray's Biker Forum
    Premier Member, Iron Butt Association
    Sustaining Member, Motorcycle Riders Foundation
    Member and Elite Legislative Supporter, American Motorcyclist Association

  •  10-04-2006, 11:12 PM 186 in reply to 182

    Re: Cagers too can be conditioned...

    I completely agree what you are saying and you are right on but...I believe cagers in general are afraid of motorcyclists when they see them in their rear view mirror.  They become distracted, not knowing where the biker is etc.  My favorite is the cager that thinks they can speed up or better yet stay ahead of you.  In that respect, I do not think cagers can be conditioned.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  I believe the general public thinks ALL motorcyclists are "Ricky Racers" unless they are riders themselves.  All you have do is look at the media, video games, arcade games etc.  I think it's time to be realistic about cagers being conditioned.  It's like the old saying, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks".  Any thoughts or suggestions?

     

    Ride Safe,

    M. Wiggins  CA  Paradise

     

    "If it's predictable, it's preventable" 

  •  10-05-2006, 3:23 AM 187 in reply to 186

    Re: Cagers too can be conditioned...

    Doubletalk.  You cannot say "I completely agree what you are saying and you are right..." and then turn right around and say "I do not think cagers can be conditioned."  As to your question on how to go about conditioning cagers to respectfully share the road with motorcyclists, you will find my "thoughts and suggestions" in earlier postings to this forum, which I will not repeat here save for this:

    Ride like you are invisible ... and if they violate your right-of-way ... fight like you are invincible.


    Bruce Arnold

    LdrLongDistanceRider.com
    Co-Moderator, Bruce-n-Ray's Biker Forum
    Premier Member, Iron Butt Association
    Sustaining Member, Motorcycle Riders Foundation
    Member and Elite Legislative Supporter, American Motorcyclist Association

  •  10-05-2006, 8:59 PM 196 in reply to 187

    Re: Cagers too can be conditioned...

    BruceArnold,

    Pardon me for the doubletalk.  As for a prior posting, I couldn't find it.  Can you refresh me with the earlier posting number?  What I am trying to say is that cagers are in my opinion "afraid of us".  Why, you might ask?  My feeling is that there are too many riders out there that destroy the true meaning of riding safely.  All it takes is one "crazyman" out there on a motorcycle to destroy the cagers perspection.  I relate it to customer service.  If you have a bad experience with just one "customer", you've lost ten.  Not to play psychologist, but it's just like marriage; it takes 10 positive statements to make up for one negative (maybe that's why marriage is so hard)  Confused.  My answer to cagers being conditioned is not "riding like you are invisible" which in my opinion is almost impossible, but rather getting these "crazymen" off the road!  I have to say, that's almost impossible in my "neck of the woods".   All I do is the best I can.  Hope you do the same.

    Continue to Ride Safe,

    M.Wiggins  CA   Paradise

     

    "If it's predictable, it's preventable
     

  •  10-27-2006, 2:19 PM 360 in reply to 72

    Re: Safer Crashing?

    Hi, I agree with alot of what you posted.  As far as the helmet law, I don't agree on all of it.  Helmets can help with injury at lower speeds.  A helmet won't do a bit of good if you are hit and have massive internal injuries and can even cause worse neck injuries.  A few weeks ago a motorcyclist was hit in the town I live.  His helmet didn't help him when he lost his leg because the cager, "DID NOT NOTICE HIM!"  She made a left turn in front of him.  As a motorcyclist, I see more of our rights being taken away because someone else thinks that they know what's best for me. Alot of the members of this "major representation group" will still wear a helmet even when it's not a law.  Some of them won't, but at the same time we all have a  common goal: "FREEDOM OF CHOICE."
  •  10-27-2006, 4:56 PM 364 in reply to 360

    Re: Safer Crashing?

    Some really good points on this thread. I hope you guys don't mind if I write an article about this subject on my blog. Everyone is right and everyone is passionate about this subject.

    Skills are important, Cager education is important, etc.

    I would like to see mainstream awareness ads so that the cagers can see that we are real human beings behind the leather and helmets. We have families, jobs, and friends just like everyone else.

    Think of it this way; how do you react to bikers when you are in your cage? Obviously we bikers pay special attention. There must be a way to educate the cagers to also pay special attention.

    This is still no substitute for riding skills and defensive driving. Good post everyone!


    Norman Gregory Fernandez, Esq.
    Biker and Motorcycle Lawyer Blog
    www.bikerlawblog.com
  •  01-23-2012, 12:19 AM 729 in reply to 364

    Re: Safer Crashing?

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