OK - I'll step out - dive in and break the ice on this one. No idea if this is the intention here or not, but I've a gripe - and it's fixable!! Here it is: 

Improving rider safety does not need more legislation! Instead, it needs consistant and persistant enforcement of existing laws/rules.

Just sit at most any controled instersection here in Casper, WY and watch. Red light runners, no signals, impropper lanes, defective equipement, etc. No, I'm not asking for a 'police state', but when every driver in town knows the yellows are short,  the reds over-lap and you can run that red and get away with it - others pay with their bodies and bank accounts.

We've a particularly nasty controlled intersection in town. Quite the violent history. Instead of simply enforcing existing rules, our city fathers have spent who knows how many dollars installing 'lane restrictors'. Cement islands - curb extenders - that force two, parallel lanes of traffic closer together in an attempt to slow them down (it's a one way, no opposing traffic). What a misguided effort. Those things may be survivable by a automobile, but a motorcycle being forced into one of these 'curbs' is asking for serious injury. Especially with gas prices as they are - why don't road/civil engineers allow for motorcycles? Why not just set the example and stop the red-light runners that blast through that intersection all day long? 

The big issue seems to be DUI enforcement - as helpful as that has been on one front, it seems to have been done at the sacrifice of other traffic enforcement. My work requires me to drive around most all day long, many of those days on a motorcycle. I'm much more likely to see a Ducati, Triumph or BMW motorcycle than a patrol car that'd stop a traffic offender. What marked cars I do see blithly go on past obvious offenders - clearly these officers are tasked with something else more important and are too busy. Problem is, everyone knows this and feeling invincible in their SUVs, pushes the envlope beyond breaking.

Put some non-lethal consequences back into bad behaviors - those behaviors will improve, before they lead to fatalites.

 OK - there it is. Now what?
 

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If it ain't broke, don't put it away - yet...

I've always felt that steeper consequences (for the existing laws) are needed.  This is especially in the realm of distracted driving.  If people know that it will cost them $5000.00 if they are caught driving while applying make-up, eating cereal or reading the paper/a book/a magazine, maybe they will be less likely to do it.  But, as you said, better enforcement is needed.

On the issue of the really bad controlled intersections; there are a couple areas (intersections and otherwise) in my city that will not be addressed by money from the City.  These areas are all on either state or federal highways.  The City will not pay for improvements to them.  They wait until the state or fed will pay.  For them to take notice, it takes several severe "accidents" at that location (usually deaths).  Only then, are suggestions for change listened to.

No, new laws are not needed, but stiffer penalties and better enforcement are definately needed. The LEO's need to spend more time enforcing laws that protect bikers (and everyone else), and less time going after motorcycle clubs and their friends.

 

http://www.saveabiker.com 

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Doing my part to save a Bikers life!
www.SaveABiker.com

This is similar to other legal issues, IMHO.  New laws are merely attempts at band-aid solutions.  Enforcement and stiffer penalties work.  You don't see drunk drivers in Norway because you lose the privilige to drive after Strike 2.  Strike 1 is costly enough to deter most people from even smelling alcohol before driving, it's the impounding of your vehicle and an enormous fine to retreive it.

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Practice random acts of defenestration

Great subject.

 Its pointless implementing new laws if the old ones aren't enforced,However.......

 Driving and riding standards here in Louisiana are shocking,We have a motorcycle fatality rate in Baton Rouge that is the 3rd highest per capita in the nation........A 21 year old buying a 2006 R1 as his first bike is just never gonna help this situation,As such we need a huge array of changes to help save lives....

 

MB

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www.friendlyyamaha.com

I think it's a little of both, really. Unlicensed riders are overrepresented in accident statistics, so it would make sense for riding without a motorcycle license to carry a very stiff penalty. Personally, I'd like to see it have an effect on a person's ability to drive an automobile legally.

But how do you enforce that more stringently? I don't think any of us want more license/insurance roadblocks to enforce this. Georgia State Patrol runs them periodically on a popular motorcycle road in the north Georgia mountains, and they're no fun. Bike traffic backs up for miles, and a lot of people end up getting tickets for technicalities.

I personally think the tiered licensing system used in the UK makes a lot of sense, but again, how do you enforce it?

A couple of things have come to mind - it should be impossible to insure a road-legal machine unless you get a license, or at least a permit. Make it the responsibility of the insurer to determine this, with hefty fines if it's violated. Since most states require at minimum liability insurance, that would cut down on the number of unlicensed operators.

I've also thought that you should be unable to purchase a road-legal machine unless you have an operator's license, but that causes too many headaches. I know quite a few racers that don't ride on the street, but buy brand-new machines pretty frequently to use on the track.

I agree with the above.

 Ive spoken to several MSF people about tiered licensing and I just dont think it would ever happen here........

 Basically tho,In the UK you are tied to be legal at all times:

You MUST have a license.

You MUST have a M.O.T(A very stringent version of the inspection sticker

You MUST have a road tax license displayed at all times(Looks similar to a vehicle inspection sticker here in the U.S and is displayed on all vehicles,If your vehicle is on the road it MUST have a road tax license,If you take your vehicle off the road for any duration of time then it must be also be registered as such with a Statutory Off Road Vehicle Notification.

You Must have insurance.

Here is the deal,To get road Tax license(That is displayed) You must have a valid license,MOT and Insurance,The cops can see ASAP if someone is legit or not with this method,Any vehicle within the UK either has to have a road tax license or be registered as S.O.R.N - Failure to do either has penalties.

MB

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www.friendlyyamaha.com

As a lawyer who deals with motorcycle and car accidents, and who also rides, my take on the issue is that there are enough laws on the books to cover the issue of negligence and intentional acts which cause accidents.

The problem is enforcement of the laws in a fair and consistent manner. It seems to me that bikers always get the short end of the stick in this regard due to the general bad public attitude of bikers and our right to share the road.

I just got a case where a teenage girl of 16 on a cell phone with a car load of her friends, decided to make a left hand turn from the curb lane, (8 lane highway) all the way across a major highway to go into a resturant. She took out a rider of a Harley Davidson Street Glide, and caused major injuries. This type of behavior goes way above simple negligence. She should have been charged with a crime. Instead she got a ticket. It seems that the public does not want to prosecute this kind of behavior which almost killed a good man.

It's a double edged sword. We are all human, and all humans make mistakes. In time most of us will make a mistake in our car or motorcycle that may cause an accident. The issue really is about the degree of the mistake and it's consequences.

I am a bikers rights advocate. There are many issues involved in this subject that are way too complicated to discuss in a forum post!

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Norman Gregory Fernandez, Esq.
Biker and Motorcycle Lawyer Blog
www.bikerlawblog.com

Biker_Lawyer:

As a lawyer who deals with motorcycle and car accidents, and who also rides, my take on the issue is that there are enough laws on the books to cover the issue of negligence and intentional acts which cause accidents.

The problem is enforcement of the laws in a fair and consistent manner. It seems to me that bikers always get the short end of the stick in this regard due to the general bad public attitude of bikers and our right to share the road.

I agree with you that there enough laws to cover negligence and the intentional acts which cause accidents, but what about laws that may help prevent them - tiered licensing, mandatory training, that sort of thing? I'm interested to hear your opinion on these.

In California we already have these things set up, except for Mandatory training. California will accept a certificate of successful completion from a certified MSF riding school in lieu of making you do the riding proficiency test at the DMV. However, you can also demonstrate your proficiency at the DMV to get your license. In both cases you also have to pass a rigorous written test as well.

My personal opinion is that I think that a Motorcycle Training Course should be mandatory in order to get your Motorcycle license. I have seen many riders that have no business riding the motorcycles that they have. With respect to California we do have a semi-tiered system i.e. minors, and learners permits.

This obviously is another controversial topic. The problem the way I see it is that once you open up a can of worms, it's very difficult to get them back in. In other words our legislatures, especially in California, pass hundreds of new laws each year. Hell, you would be surprised at how many new laws that are enacted, that people have no clue of!

I will not discuss politics in any way shape or form here, but it is my opinion that we already have too many laws. I agree that laws are necessary for the functioning of a civil society in any country, but there does come a point when the nature, extent, and amount of laws limits our ability to be free, and limits our ability to be normal human beings as well.

With that being said, I do think that mandatory rider training would be a good thing so long as it is reasonably priced.

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Norman Gregory Fernandez, Esq.
Biker and Motorcycle Lawyer Blog
www.bikerlawblog.com

Motorcycle Training Course should be mandatory in order to get your Motorcycle license

Agreed, but what about Motorcycle Awareness being a manditory part of Drivers Education?

I hate big government, and I hate most of the current, broad based laws we have now. There should only be good reason to tamper with the constitution. More laws never helped anyone. Most of the current laws need to have stiffer penalties!

Get caught with an illegal gun, you get 5 years min... bag of pot for a second time, 7 years min. Kill a biker because you're reading a newspaper, or talking on a cell phone, $70.00 fine... Thats where the problem is.
 

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Doing my part to save a Bikers life!
www.SaveABiker.com

As if we need anymore examples - but for whoever is reading these forums, looking for *something* to improve rider safety:

RISING SUN, Md. -- A King of Prussia woman was killed in a truck-versus-motorcycle accident involving two Pennsylvania residents in Maryland Tuesday afternoon.

State police said the 43-year-old King of Prussia woman killed was a motorcycle safety instructor in suburban Philadelphia.Her motorcycle struck a truck driven by a Lancaster man when he made a left-hand turn on Route One in Cecil County.

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Police did not release the victim’s name.The truck driver, 37-year-old Jose Torres-Arroyo, was ticketed for negligent driving and failure to yield the right of way while turning.

 

A ticket?? A FREAKING TICKET!! That's the consequence? This guy aughta be doing jail time for vehicular manslaughter - at least!! Blame the biker? I don't think so - circumstances at least STRONGLY imply this lady knew here stuff.

Lax fines, no consequences, a freak'n 'traffic' ticket - maybe $200. This is simply state condoned murder. The state's 'enforcers' - by their dis-ability to act appropriately - can't or won't effect proportional consequences. So, they're implicity saying, "it's OK to kill bikers".

No, I'm not blaming the LEO. Chances are his hands are tied. I'm talking about the whole enforcement system.

Now - what do we do? Million Bike March? We all show up in Rising Sun, MD and stage a demonstration? Yea - I think so. Something along those lines - over and over and over again. Going to have to get a LOT more participation than we're seeing here though. But we're going to have to make ourselves be seen (to put a twist on a popular 'safety mantra'). No one is going to 'do it for us'.

MADD helped get DUI laws effective - it's going to be up to us to get State Condoned Murder changed. 

http://www.nbc10.com/news/9998325/detail.html

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If it ain't broke, don't put it away - yet...

Ok, so no, new laws aren't needed.  But how do we make the ones we have work?  Situations like this woman being killed and the guy getting a ticket!  If I were in my car and that happened, someone would be getting more than a ticket.  But, if I'm on my bike and someone kills me... that's ok??  What is going to make the rules apply across the board I wonder?

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Only a biker knows why a dog hangs his head out the window.

Good question vstar,

That's why I included the reference to MADD. I talked with a lawyer friend of mine - got quite into a heated discussion. Basicly he told me what's gotta happen is a change in "Public Opinion". Way the law stands now - that example is the norm and will be until a change is forced by public opinion.

Since the cage driver, in this case, didn't "intend" to kill anyone - it may not be technically a criminal act - or some such. Seems what you didn't mean to do has more weight than what happened. To get the consequences to match the actions, there's gotta be a public 'outcry' A common opinion that it's so heiniously bad there should be 'something' done. That's exactly what MADD did to get DUI laws so stiff.

 Another rider 'n I got into it on this subject as well - he brought up the idea of having your life ruined, a police state type action, for a simlpe mistake. My response is basicly "your rights are yours to have, upto the point they compromise my rights" - so, simple mistake or not - you do a simple stupid thing, like make a no-yield turn that results in a death - well, we gotta get the general populouce on board with the idea that folks that commit such actions should be accountable for them or nothing's going to happen.

 
My Initial plan - at least localy for now - is to highlight, focus on and push media attention on the consequences of these 'simple mistakes'. Families ruined, people crippled, peolpe killed by someone else's "simple" mistake.

So, I'm changing tactics here - not going for the 'education' bit, the 'be aware of bikers campaign', the 'no cell phones' gig - folks are getting saturated with that to the point of in-effectiveness. I'm going to push the sentimental, the emotional and financial disasters left in the wake of these 'simple mistakes'. Get the outrage going - get the 'somethings gotta be done!' inertia rolling - then we'll see.

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If it ain't broke, don't put it away - yet...

Ah crap - did I just find myself advocating "New Laws"??

I hope not, not my intent - but something's gotta change. 

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If it ain't broke, don't put it away - yet...